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Defkalion demo proven not to be reliable

May 12, 2014

(This blog post was originally posted on Animpossibleinvention.com)


Alexandros Xanthoulis at Defkalion's demo in Milan July 23, 2013.

Alexander Xanthoulis at Defkalion’s demo in Milan July 23, 2014. Photo: Mats Lewan

The measurement setup that was used by Defkalion Green Technologies (DGT) on July 23, 2013, in order to show in live streaming that the Hyperion reactor was producing excess heat, does not measure the heat output correctly, and the error is so large that the reactor might not have worked at all.

This is the conclusion of a report (download here) by Luca Gamberale, former CTO of the Italian company Mose srl that at that time was part of the joint venture Defkalion Europe, owned together with DGT.

The report is based on experiments, performed mainly after the live streaming, using the same setup but without the reactor being active. Yet, the experiments showed that it was possible to obtain a measured thermal power of up to about 17 kW, while the input electric power was about 2.5 kW.

I asked Gamberale if this erroneous result could have been present without DGT realizing it.

“To obtain this effect it’s necessary to operate two valves in a certain way, so you need to have the intention to do it,” Gamberale told me.

Those of you who have read my book ‘An Impossible Invention’ know that Defkalion was an early partner to Rossi, supposed to build applications using Rossi’s reactor as a heat source. When Rossi ended the agreement with Defkalion in August 2011, Defkalion stated that operations continued, and later Defkalion claimed to have developed its own similar technology, producing heat from a reaction involving nickel and hydrogen.

Test results and measurement data were never disclosed, but in July 2013 Defkalion finally decided to make a public demo, live streamed during the cold fusion conference ICCF 18. I was present at the demo on July 23 in Milan, Italy, and referred my impressions in two blog posts here and here, trying to be as objective and neutral as possible, since I believe that my readers should draw their own conclusions.

“If you believe the values presented…”, I wrote, and that was also the main problem. It was not easy in a short time frame to verify possible errors or hidden mechanisms, specifically since Defkalion didn’t accept changes in the setup, and therefore it was not evident that you should believe the values. I reported them as presented though. 

Gamberale describes in the report that before the demo, Mose had proposed a series of improvements to the measurement setup in order to make it more reliable but that DGT did not allow these changes. He notes that the lack of cooperation made it necessary to carry out independent verification tests.

The tests focused on a possible malfunction of the digital flow meter used to measure water flow in the setup. It was shown that by decreasing the input water flow to almost zero, the flow meter started to make fast movements back and forth, and since the direction of the flow was not registered by the flow meter, these fast movements resulted in a reading corresponding to a relatively high flow, although the flow was almost zero.

Since the calculation of thermal heat was based on how much water was heated by the reactor, this measurement error resulted in a large calculated thermal heat output, while the actual thermal heat was much lower.

The explanation is thoroughly discussed in the report. Most important, however, is the fact that Gamberale with the experiment has proved that the setup could produce readings of large amounts of excess heat, without the reactor running, and that any result from the setup showing excess heat therefore is unreliable.

Gamberale explained to me that he presented these findings to Defkalion’s president Alexander Xanthoulis, and to Defkalion’s engineer Stavros Amaxas who was operating the setup at the public demo.

According to Gamberale, Xanthoulis said “Ok, we don’t know, this could be possible, but in any case we are sure that the reaction exists”.

Gamberale described Amaxas’ reaction to be much stronger. Defkalion’s CTO John Hadjichristos was not present at that meeting.

In his report, Gamberale also notes that Mose srl has given DGT some time to provide evidence that its technology is real, despite the findings presented, but that after several months, no answer has been given.

As I write in my book, Gamberale and the president of Mose srl, Franco Cappiello, who told me that he had invested €1 million in the joint venture, decided to put all commercial activity on hold until Defkalion could carry out a measurement that dispelled their doubts. They later closed Defkalion Europe altogether.

I called Alexander Xanthoulis and asked for a comment. He didn’t dispute the result of the report but pointed out that the calorimetric set-up at the Milan demo was not made by Defkalion but by Mose. Gamberale confirmed this but explained that the set-up was made according to strict instructions from Defkalion, and that when Mose added some component, such as another independent flow meter or another method for measuring thermal heat output, these additional components were immediately removed by Defkalion personel without discussions.

Xanthoulis also said that he didn’t understand why Gamberale hadn’t asked these questions earlier during months of contacts and visits by Mose at Defkalion’s offices in Canada, and by Defkalion in Milan. Gamberale explained that he had tried to get the information he needed but that he was never allowed to make the measurements he asked for. Instead he described his role as one of an observer.

Finally Xanthoulis pointed out that the flow calorimetry measurements (measurement of thermal energy output by heating flowing water) were not important, but that the most important measurements were on the bare reactor, calculating the output thermal energy by measuring temperatures on various points of the reactor without heating any water (you then use a law called Stefan–Boltzmann law). He told me that these measurements had been sent to Gamberale twice.

“He sent an Excel spreadsheet with no explanation including a couple of incomprehensible graphs in which it was not even written what it was about. I felt almost offended. I’m asking a justification of an abnormal result regarding a claim of a nuclear reaction that would change the history of the world, and I get an Excel sheet without any specification of what it is,” Gamberale commented.

I got the spreadsheets from Gamberale. They contain temperature measurements in degrees Celsius on various points of the reactor and can be downloaded here (sheet 1 and sheet 2). I know they are accurate since Xanthoulis sent me one identical document, asking me not to publish it.

I have studied Gamberale’s report and I find it both detailed and convincing. It should make Defkalion’s case difficult.

Gamberale doesn’t accuse Defkalion openly for fraud, but he makes it clear that the Milan demo presented no evidence that the technology is working.

The doubts I have had towards Defkalion, described in my book, are obviously increased through the report. Some wondered about the uncertainty regarding Defkalion’s technology that I expressed recently in an interview by John Maguire at Q-niverse. One important reason was Gamberale’s report, which I had already received by then.

And while I write in the last chapter of the book that it’s hard to assess Defkalion, but that if its claims can be trusted, Defkalion might have made ​​the most progress among those working with LENR technology based on nickel and hydrogen, I now find it less likely.

Alexander Xanthoulis still claims, however,  that the development of the new reactor is on track and that according to the plans it will be certified with regard to safety and security by a Canadian certifying body corresponding to US Underwriters’ Laboratory within the next months. After that, Defkalion could start licensing the technology to partners. National licenses were previously offered at EUR 40.5 million, and though Xanthoulis told me that five contracts have been signed he also said that no money had yet been transferred.

But Defkalion will now have to present solid evidence to convince anyone that its technology is valid, and also let those people make changes to the test protocol and to the measurement set-up, if it’s necessary in order to eliminate uncertainties.

Gamberale told me that the findings he describes in the report could bring damage to serious research activities within LENR, but he also told me that he personally still believes that LENR is an important scientific and technological area and that he is getting involved in two other projects in this domain.

(Added on May 16): Gamberale has a PhD in theoretical high energy physics from the University of Milan, and at the Milan based Pirelli Labs he has further developed the theoretical work in coherent electrodynamics by his countryman, late Dr. Giuliano Preparata. Among his experimental work he has been assessing the technology of Black Light Power. He has also made studies on electrochemical loading of palladium wires.

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52 Comments
  1. Cimpy permalink

    You’re really amusing, AlainCo.
    So you imagine some physicist can be bought by plane ticked from sweden to Italy ?
    I never said that. I was saying they would probably answer better to questions on journey rather than on E Cat and how it should (does not) work.

    DC offset
    You know, when you have to find where the trick is, but you are not allowed to get even close to the stuff, it is pretty difficult. It is difficult even for those who observe from closer distance, if they cannot do the tests they would like but must (as for Mats in 2013 July) follow the game.
    So DC was an hypothesis from a great tester from Italy who was not able to spot the trick from photos. But another great one saw it. Forget DC, he already told you what it was. You did not understood? Seems like if you would it to be working as claimed as we did not spot the trick immediately and at first glance of a picture…No matter how many trick I or another guessed wrong, or even if someone spot it before or after.

    The E Cat will not work in any case if a trick is there, you know? What you have had till now was an illusion of working. As soon as a trick is shown to you and it stands, you should stop claiming is a conspiracy and should ask Rossi & co proves the trick does not stand. Either a video of the run that show the values or a new test where setup is controlled by reliable people – among which those who had taken measurements are not included (as it is exactly their ability in testing the stuff that is under questioning)

    Defkalion fraud, AlainCo? Now you call it a fraud? You sure you would not like to follow Peter Gluck in his hopefull waiting for R6, so that you can suspend judgment on R5 for, say, two or three more years? With infinite renewable options, of course…

    Many (and not only I) told you Hyperion was a scam, and that demo in July 2013 had a lot of matter related to what you could see and what they said you were seeing. More than one pointed out heat and silence and even magnetism, were not what was expected. There have been a couple of smart guys who pointed out there were matter related to the size of pipes.

    Among other stuff, believing the temperature I imagined a trick on flow. It was one of the thing I guessed (wrong) mainly due to the silence: there was not a vapor running out as they said, there was not all that water running in, this was the point.

    In any case, the only one who needed the report from Gamberale to (partially, is not so AlainCo) accept the stuff was a scam is you, fooled by Italian believers in E Cat (who suggested you to learn dancing) and even by Mats himself to whom I asked (it seems to me around a month or two before the Gamberale report) to tell you the truth, even privately, so that you could stop making yourself ridiculous spreading around your faith in Hyperion while quite the whole world already knew the truth, believers included. All, but you.
    I am sure you can find that message from me to Mats somewhere in this site, if you are interested. Should be in beneath all the prays to phone Gamberale…

    Late now, good night, you dreamer

  2. So you imagine some physicist can be bought by plane ticked from sweden to Italy ?
    Who is gullible here ?

    This black campaing is well done and the timing is perfect.
    the 3rd party test were well made in tha the first round of test was just done to gather critics by skeptics, so one can address them.
    since une month it was clear for skeptics following the story that the 3rd party testers have addressed all the question of skeptics, like IR cams, like DC offset, like wires, like independent resort, like Livi presence…
    The skeptics were also aware that as soon as they will raise a question, the testers would run a complementary test to answer it.

    so the trick was to wait for the moment where the report is at typo correction phase, when nothing can be changed really about the content, to introduce new question.

    they invented the claim of corruption of the Swedish scientists.

    Well done. all the nay-believers will continue to nay-believe, and thisn include the planet, the media, the science community, who is comfortably refusing even to read the critics agains cold fusion.

    why are you unable, like coyaud, like stephen pomp, to bring me even one non refuted article against the Fleischman&Pons paper ?
    and I don’t say against the hundred of published papers done in the 90s..

    You simply have no data to challenge the scientific data produced by what you call the LENr “believers”.
    You trick is to say “but it is up to you to prove your poin”.
    I agree, and it is done since long
    now since we have papers, reports, you have to prove your point…
    and not with black campaign like the pathetic shameful paper of Pomp&Ericsson, based on accusation of frauds, then conspiracy hypothesis based mostly on bad reading of the report a, then on missing data, then on unrealistic hypothesis…

    It is up to you to prove your point, and you did nothing.

    Even on Defkalion fraud, you listed a handful of wrong explanation (like problem on the electric side), and it is clear that the only good one came to Cimpy who contacted Luca gamberale.
    Luca Gamberale is a good example as, he, brought evidence and made test.

    so E-cat is simply a danger as it is the only possible evidence that the nay-believers won’t be able to hide to the masses, as they hide LENr evidences through scientific media control.

    It is a conspiracy of “groupthink”. simply people protecting their ego from reality.

    what do you have as evidence ?

    you have no more evidence than the 9/11 truthers. same scheme, same bias, same conviction.

    like for wright brothers plane, you will admit facts one year after commercialization, and yes, commercialization like engineering development, is long. it takes normally 5 years… It is in process and the end is a question of semesters.

    we should really teach epistemology and history of science in school. i mean the real history, where transistor was invented 20 years before, where HTSC was published many years before as footnote, when quasiscientists was ridiculed before his Nobel, when germs took 200 years to be accepted…

    What an irony that S Coyaud, talk of Cargo Cult Science, as she is doing exactly that…
    fake science, fake logic, to avoid reality, inverting charge of evidence, ignoring facts, not even understanding where she is wrong, because she don’t have the mental toolbox to understand what is an evidence, the difference between existence and generalization, hypothesis and evidence.

    i will cite again the article of jed rothwell, that contain the sad prediction that the black campaign will work perfectly, allowing all the nay believers to think they have an answer to the 3rd party report to cam… a conspiracy theory…

    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusion.pdf#page=4

    “Taubes’ book was recommended in enthusiastic blurbs by four Nobel laureates and the chairman of the American Association of the Advancement of Science. These people could not have actually read the book, or if they did, their judgment was skewed by animosity. This shows how easy it is to spread false information, and how careless distinguished scientists can be. It takes only a small group of people to poison the well of public opinion. There may be a few other active critics in the mass media, but most attacks originate from these four: Morrison, Park, Huizenga, and Taubes. They are not famous or influential. They succeed because many scientists bear a grudge against cold fusion, and are willing to believe the worst about it. When Robert Park attacked it with inflammatory ad hominem rhetoric, a room packed with hundreds of members of the American Physical Society (APS) applauded and cheered. “

  3. Ecat story really is coming to an end. But no doubt the believers will continue believing.

    At some point I found ecat nonsense funny. Now, I also find it a little bit sad too. And amazing, considered how many people it got to believe in something, that did not exist.

    This has not been a story of heroic engineering effort, but a story of human mind, how easily it is deceived. It should be no wonder, because evolution has made us that way.

  4. Alain, I eill love to see how you will follow Gluck strategy after E Cat story will find its natural end. Look at this broken clock: the time is round the corner. …

    Mats, anything to say on today Marcus chapter? What was that Rossi seemed not to have understood in September 2012?

  5. What you say is that Piantelli, Celani, are not correctly replicated. We have to check but i take the point.
    Given the impact of NiH technology the domain is plagued by secrecies and lack of third party control.
    Note that Celani wires was replicated by ST Microelectronics labs, with top lab calorimeters. So following
    MFMP have goodwill, but seems to be SMB engineers in learning curve not at top competence like what you expect from a corporate lab.

    Other third party test are E-cat by the Elforsk funded team, and Brillouin with SRI/tanzella.

    Now, on PdD cold fusion readers have to know, that after the huge number of replication (see the book of Beaudette http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=35 ) in the 1990-1993 period (Yes I know people like Pomp are not even aware of it – LOL), there have been improved experiments.
    You have for example the replication of Fralick (NASA) by Biberian, by Uni tsinghua, the by NASA GRC.
    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/FralickGClenratgrcp.pdf
    You have also the joint effort with cross replication between SRI, Navy NRL, and ENEA

    https://mospace.umsystem.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10355/36833/ExcessPowerDuringElectrochemical.pdf?sequence=1

    you also have the replication of Iwamura/Mitsubishi by Toyota
    http://jjap.jsap.jp/link?JJAP/52/107301/

    It is true that NiH cold fusion claims are much less replicated, and much more hidden that well validated PdD

    However nobody with a brain should forget that the real problem with E-cat LENr reactor claims is not about rossi, or even industrial application or NiH reaction…
    the real problem is that E-cat prove Cold Fusion is real, and since it prove industrially that academic failed miserably, it cannot be accepted.

    my point is that it is proven since 1992 that academics failed miserably. Just see the twitter account of Pomp, who is not even aware of the replication and simply parrots Wikipravda, not even aware that I can make him ridicule in few minute.

    The rest is without much fundamental importance, as we know that this kind of phenomenon, even if unusable at first will be harnessed by engineers. Given you accept that LENR is real, because it is scientifically proven, the Levi&al test is just what you can expect from a Due Diligence process, and was successful.

    Entrepreneurs I know even tell me that Rossi will be toasted by newcomers from big corps as soon as those followers invest the billions the domain deserve, not because they love LENr or want to make money, but because they know it will vitrify their market and freeze all transactions.

    Question will be to know who will be the Boeing/Airbus of cold fusion. My bet is that it won’t be Cherokee.

    Piezzo nucleare is not a LENr process that is validated from F&P saga. My intuition is negative, but I know that in that domain the rate of mainstream disinformation is so high that mainstream position is not more credible than the one of a magnet motor company.

    F&P phenomenon is LENR inside hydride.
    To understand the scope of the phenomenon you can consult Edmund Storms review in naturwissenschaften.
    http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/StormsEstatusofcoa.pdf
    basically, there is heat, He4, less than 10^-6 tritium,neutrons and energetic gamma than expected from hot fusion heat, minor transmutations

  6. I can tell you that Focardi, against the willing of Piantelli, let Massa try to test what seemed a working Piantelli cell with a lot of excess of heat. Massa went to Focardi office and put that cell in a system to measure it, then left the task to read the values to Focardi, Focardi went on reading for some time (I do not know exactly how long, it seems to me it could have been three weeks). But (strangely?) no more excess where found. Later Piantelli said the cell has been broken when moved to the system. Moreover, Piantelli never repaired it nor let Massa test any cell anymore.

    And for Celani tube with constantana wires, the MFMP (non europe section) examined for some time. At the beginning it seemed excess were there. But in the end someone discovered it was the tube which was not pressuretight. Once the tube has been made pressuretght, excess of heat disapeared (and Celani went back with a nice “differential examination”, then later seems as if he abandoned the costantana wires.

    and for piezonuclear from Carpinteri, seems as if you need an angel and an earthquake. The angel should also take care no being will be hit byu the uge amount of neutrons that should be free to spread around everywhere the earthquake is and beiond. But only inside inanimate stuff, not alive one,,,

  7. Einar Tennfors permalink

    Gamberalis report clarifies how the cooling water flow measurement was obstructed to indicate a high output power. It may be true that this only only means that the flow measurement was unreliable and LENR-believers may still hope that nuclear energy is released in the “reactor chamber”, just not properly measured. It might also be possible to assume that Defkalions reactor and/or Rossis E-cat are failures and even scams, but other LENR devices produce anomalous power by some unknown reactions. If it is further assumed that the reactions take place in a very small volume, it appears to be necessary to invoke unknown nuclear reactions. This assumption is often made by LENR believers.
    To judge what is true in Defkalions “reactor”, we may look at the measurements in the “reactor” chamber, which should satisfy Xanthoulis. I cite some parts of my November posts on “Update on Defkalions reactor demo in Milan” to show that this is not true, there is no extra power release in the “active”, hydrogen case!
    In earlier (May 15) experiments a number of thermocouples registered temperature at different locations, both for the “active” case and for a reference case with argon instead of hydrogen:
    “Thermocouples were located in the “reactor” chamber, T_ch , at the cooling coil, T_coil, at the cooling Water inlet, T_in, and at the outlet, T_out.
    In the argon case, with 2.5 kW in, COP = 0.524 and 1.4 kW out the temperatures at the peak were:
    T_ch = 372 ̊C, T_coil = 130 ̊C, T_out = 100 ̊C, and T_in = 25 ̊C.
    In the “active” case, with 2.5 kW in, COP = 3.08 and 7.7 kW out the temperatures at the peak were:
    T_ch = 380 ̊C, T_coil = 310 ̊C, T_out = 100 ̊C, and T_in = 25 ̊C.
    An extra source of power in the “reaction” chamber would have increased T_ch more than the increase of T_coil. Obviously, this cannot be the case!
    Instead, we have to look what happens between the coil and the cooling water!”
    In the July 23 demonstration, the corresponding data were not available, the data screen could be found in some video frames but sometimes difficult to read. It is understandable that Mats had difficulties in analyze results while it was going on, and that was probably not the intention with the show. However, what could be read is close enough to the May test to draw the conclusion that there is no nuclear reactions going on in the “reactor”, as seen in my second citation:
    “Again, the internal chamber temperature T_ch = 360 ̊C is not increased significantly, the coil temperature is T_coil = 280 ̊C and the heat transport from chamber to coil obviously reduced. This clearly shows that the difference between the argon case and the hydrogen case is a reduction in cooling efficiency, caused by a lower flow of water and thermal insulation due to a wider sheath of steam. This leads to the problem with the flow measurement.
    In the May test, it is obvious that the flow fluctuates and makes the diagram difficult to evaluate. Hadjichristos describes how this is treated with an algorithm based on the slope of the curve given by the flow meter pulses. He also notes that it gives the same result as the mean value mean value and the harmonic mean value only when the flow is constant.
    Since the T_out varies rather smoothly, using the T_out together with a sliding mean of neighbouring flow values would be a reasonable way of finding the output power. In the argon case, P_out seems to vary smoothly also, all the mean values are rather equal, and the calibration of the flow meter works well. In the “active”, hydrogen, case, however, steam pressure blocks the water from flowing smoothly, the time derivative is significantly different from zero, and the calibration from the previous day is no longer valid.”
    The algorithm Hadjichristos uses for flow calculation seems to play the same role for obstructing the output power measurement as the waveform shape introduced by Rossi for obstructing the input energy measurement by lowering the power factor far below the limit given in the instrument specifications.
    It is unavoidable that the many false claims on LENR reduces the credibility also of the efforts made in good faith, as it does for the hot fusion development. To the general public, only the negative result that fusion, regardless of temperature, turned out to be a flaw remains in the memory.
    Beaudettes version of the history of “Cold Fusion” makes it easier to understand why this research is still going on, it gives the impression that the excess heat is a solidly established fact and that it can only be explained by nuclear reactions. There are, however several claims made that after a closer look turns out to be fake or just misinterpretation of measurements. Sometimes the observed excess power is comparable to the noise, in other cases much lower than the input power.
    The fact that LENR believers have argued so strongly for the approaches by Rossi and Defkalion, which both behave in a way creating strong suspicion indicates that they are regarded as front runners. This also reduces the credibility if the other approaches. Are all the other established excess heat reports judged after the same low standard?

  8. “I am guilty according to you to be optimistic without enough evidence.
    You are guilty to reject reality supported by scientific evidences”

    Your only sin is to have been gullible. Mine as one among skeptics is not to accept what only you can call “scientific evidences” which are claims done by people who are not in a position to proof them and faked replicas done by people who were and are not in a position to replicate anything. That is NOT science.

    As you frequently cite it, tell us how that book from Charles Beaudette helped you in Defkalion case and how can it help you with all the matters raised on Rossi’s story (for example, does Charles take in account the gamma thermalization? Read my lips, I am not speaking of the possibility of a thermalization in theory or in general, I am speaking of the one that should have happened inside E Cat since 2010 to 2012. You know how many lead you have in it and how much it surround the core ? Does Charles speak about Rossi’s copper transmutation? Again, not the theoretical possibility of a transmutation in the universe, but the one that should have happened inside E Cat (which, you know, in its life have had… copper tubes…Oh, my God!) Does Charles have an explanation for the differences found in the analysis of the copper from different labs?
    And Levi unscientific way of testing (from the reading of a flowmeter to the nice probe and related data invention, not to speak of the water pump matter), can Charles explain? You sure it is me and the videos?.

    Better you start taking in balance the fact that Rossi is in no way more reliable than Xanthoulis (you do not trust Xanthoulis anymore, do you? You’ re not all that gullible, am I correct?), as all the Rossi story (from PetrolDragon -do you know I am Italian? I was there, you know? And saw by my eyes the fields around La Chiarella before and after- to Thermo electrical Generators scam till this new magic mutant transformer box) is screaming aloud.

    Better you start thinking a bit upon what made you so sure ‘till -say- nine months ago that Hyperion was what it was claimed to be, a real working fusor that you could admire on TV thanks to the genius of its father Rossi and the fast hands of the smart Greek guys who grabbed the secret during a joint venture.

    Think back, to all the things that made you sure – the voice of professors, of physics, of Nasa reports, and all the web pages dedicated to this wonderful machine “soon ready”, with an incredible power, the solution to the World needing.

    Step back and, once you’ve done, step forward: Cappiello has told you it was a fraud, and Gamberale described it to you explaining how things you’ve read and in which you believed were lies: the Nasa reports were not true (wait! How could it be possible? Do you ever heard anyone from Nasa telling it? How could it be? But if that is true, how can you trust others voices or reports for E Cat to be true? Could it be Levi invented data? Is Levi’s report more reliable than those from Nasa?), professor KIM did not tested the Hyperion (by the way, do you know Focardi did not look inside E Cat? He did not tested it, unless you keep as a test being in a room that is supposed to be heated by the E Cat – ummm…dejà vu?); Kim simply read and worked on the values that greek fellaws sent him. And even Gamberale and Mats could not do anything different than following the Greek protocol. Are you sure Uppsala guys that assisted Levi in the TPR could have a better role than Gamberale or Mats? One could think that asking them directly could answer this doubt. But first, you should ask yourself if Gamberale ever said anything about this to the world at that time…

    I do not remember a single word about the fact he was not in a position to have tested it while Xanthoulis swore the machine and the process had been tested and tested and there could be no possible mistake on the fact it worked nicely.

    To tell the truth, we – nine months later (…my mommy give me to the world life in the same time…) – discovered that the machine worked as long as no one else could really test it, but also we discovered no one said a single word.
    A team of true third party tester were called to test the machine without advising Greeks; Gamberale discovered then that the machine did not work at all and…he said only “some matter on measurements”. He said nothing on the fact that he could not have tested it, nor Mats, nor Kim said anything.

    Of course, everyone has a good excuse for that – the biggest is for Cappiello: 1 million of good reasons. But even dr Kim has his reasons, among which I am sure there was his (loosely) honor and (I suspect) a couple of signs on NDA papers (but this is a guess, you now might try asking him – I am quite sure he would say he never lied as he never stated directly he tested it –it was the reporters at least that misinterpreted – or might be even you directly, as some web site reported “he witnessed”, not “he tested”, is different – quite a totally different fraud…)
    But when the ship sank, Jet Rotwell let us know Kim did not really tested the machine. When sank. The day before, even if the ship for me and all the non-believers was already sunk, Kim still held his aura of great scientist who tested Hyperion and found it was making cold fusion real.

    And now that Greek ship has sunk. The cold fusion inside Hyperion was (and is) a fraud and a scam. And you should really consider that all the evidences you held it was working are bullshit. Up to you to find if there could be any real difference with all the evidences you hold on E Cat being a real working cold fusion machine. Only take this advice: this time mind what skeptics are telling you. And start from the reliability of Levi.

  9. ” fairy-tales are not going to help anybody in the long run. And I really, really do not like false hope and people who spread it”
    I quote.

  10. @ivy & al
    I agree that we can be fooled by optimism about enterprises.
    It is common, even on classic technology.

    But if anyone honest succeed in reading Excess Heat by Charles Beaudette,
    http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf#page=35
    It will be clear that the delusion you show agains LENR is of a higher level.

    I stayed uncertain,open while the doubt (not the evidence since there was none) were piling, because of lack of delivery, but sure you and your clone are denying clear evidences of LENR since 1992, and Levi report.

    I am guilty according to you to be optimistic without enough evidence.
    You are guilty to reject reality supported by scientific evidences.

    I don’t reject the report of Luca Gamberale, not more than any human report by a credible author having skin in the game. I admit errors.

    I’m not a denier like you.

  11. Ascoli65 permalink

    @Mats Lewan wrote
    This is not black or white. You can study journalism all over the world and find this principle applied at varying extent, but it’s a basic principle.

    This could be a good example of black AND white world class journalism (1):
    LT2b — maxiumum according to the label (in my report) which doesn’t necessarily mean maximum in reality.
    Isn’t it? :)

    (1) http://matslew.wordpress.com/2014/04/02/heres-my-book-on-cold-fusion-and-the-e-cat/#comment-2342

  12. Failed to add my point: it is good to report what you think is relevant. However, gullible journalism is not going to help people understand.

    Right now, there are a lot of scammers in this free energy, LENR, over unity machine business. You name it. They all have one thing is common: nobody can deliver. My bet is, that it will remain that way for some time.

    It is good that people have hope. But fairy-tales are not going to help anybody in the long run. And I really, really do not like false hope and people who spread it.

  13. …You might agree that “lured by scam and fraud stories” would sound less strange…

  14. Well, Mats. I do not know much about journalism, but I am a quick learner. You are right, you should report whatever you feel is relevant.

    However, I amazes me, how easily even seemingly intelligent people are lured by this LENR nonsense.

  15. Mats, ok, I do calm down.

    AlainCo, you are really amusing, expecially (but not exclusively) when you try to present yourself as the one who calmed down the most enthusiastics…

  16. @cimpy

    first thanks to have asked me to call Luca, and I will say the same as Mats.
    Few month after you I obtained the same data than you, the one you did not say citing your source, and as you and Mats I could not accuse a company on the basic of just hearsay.
    I could otherwise accuse you to be an agent of ENI, or Saudi Arabia, to decredibilize LENR… I would have no evidence, and I could write a report to prove it with the absence of evidence you frequently use. (for readers here, it is a joke)

    As soon as i was aware of luca’s claims, I started to warn the most enthusiastics to calm down, and I used the public data :
    - nothing delivered
    - a preliminary report by nelson with no followup,
    - a demo with Luca who raise warning on measurement “discrepancies”
    - an incoherent management and incoherent promises (test late, IPO forgotten)
    - Symeon who left the company
    - Luca who quit DE

    Did you notice you were wrong about the HV measurement, according to Luca gamberale. water flow is according to Luca, fooled, but not electric power.
    You always say there is a fraud, even on things that are OK.
    Your voice have no value as to any question you will say : LENR is a fraud. It is not a critic, it is theory of information. When the answer is constant the information is null.

    It is a miracle that I caught from you the only useful information, to call Luca. Thanks again.

    Defkalion,claimed reactor is not based on magic, but on a know effect, replicated thousands of time by many respected scientist on the planet.
    that you cannot admit that reduce your credibility to ZERO.
    What happened is as if a solar panel company was fooling partners about their new PV cell.

    I agree that I waited for too long for evidence.
    As you have read in my comments, I was agreeing that the demo was a pony show, not independent, with some pretended goodwill… better than for some old demo of Rossi.
    The only credible report was the one of Nelson, and even if all is confirmed by nelson, it is clearly insufficient to conclude according to him. Given the trick that Gamberale signal, Nelson report is weak.

    Now, instead of pretending to be sure that everything around LENR is fake, and thus losing credibility like a dead clock, try to find on what you agree.

    If you agree on nothing, you are a denier.

    The worst irony is that I was more skeptical on Andrea Rossi, because of many skeptic critics on his demo, which seems to be sometime flat true, or sometime plain false. The lies of some skeptics contaminated me, and Rossi’s personality did not help to gain credibility…

    Nay-Believers does not help people to criticize all without distinction, to pretend being sure while they have no evidence, to transform any lack of data into certainty of fraud, to ignore positive data, and generalize negative points, to reverse logic…
    This prevent us to think on details. this makes things emotional, while it should be simply analytic.

  17. Mats Lewan permalink

    Calm down Cimpy.

  18. “I had some contacts with Cappiello some time before this…that they had found problems”
    Of course. Milan closed BEFORE the 14 of JANAUARY 2014. This is a reasonable amount of credible facts, not simply rumors.
    It is since then that I ask AlainCo (and everybody else) news on Gamberale. I can believe they say you nothing. I cannot believe you wrote “it might have been working”. Was it based on “a reasonable amount of credible facts”? Facts like what you read on a Greek display instead of what you can see with your eyes and hear with your ears?Is it “a basic principle” that , in case of doubt, you do believe a new magic device does work as claimed even despite the escape of major sellers for Europe after they tested it?
    Look at me again: are you trying to say till 1 of April you could really think it might have worked? That is what you wrote, is not it?
    What was – even for the end of January – more reliable, more credible as a fact that made Gamberale and Cappiello closed theater and buried puppets due to “that they had found problems”:

    that it worked nicely since the day before, but something could break in the last day and need to be adjusted? And so they closed all??

    or

    that it was no more than a scam and a fraud, and the game was already over? And so they closed all…

    You know, Xanthoulis still claim Hyperion does work, and he even has a new model (like Rossi teaches: switch to a new one and all the old is past), and now, which should be the fact? Might it ever work, Mats? Like AlainCo still hopes, to be able to save the Greek Cat fusion…Guess what: Xanthoulis is right, he can go on in this scam as there are so nice people around that have a principle, speak only of “reasonable amount of credible facts”, and it is not said only because Xanthoulis lied in the past and tricked everyone for a couple of years that he is going to lie again this time, is not so Mats? This time he could have discovered the way to make cold fusion work, as AlainCo is hoping in this very moment.

    “Mats Lewan. Mats holds a masters degree in physics, and is recognized as a world-renowned science & technology reporter. He writes for the Swedish newspaper NyTeknik, where he has been covering both cold fusion generally, and Andrea Rossi’s Energy-Catalyzer technology specifically”

    You sure you do not deserve Mats? The one your physic professors could not hand you when you were there in Milan, I mean.
    But also the one for your daily job of spreading all the Rossi bullshit around… No, I am not going to give up due to the “reasonable amount of credible facts” you think you can see, as I can see a lot of “reasonable amount of credible facts” that loudly said and say not only Hyperion, but also E Cat (and Piantelli cells, and Celani tubes, and Carpinteri piezonuclar,…) are no more than similar farces and all those who are around to say “those devices might work” are boosters of scam and fraud.
    Among others, YOU Mats.

  19. Mats Lewan permalink

    @Cimpy I had some contacts with Cappiello some time before this. I understood that they had investigated Defkalion’s technology in some way and that they had found problems, but he didn’t give me any details, numbers or facts.
    Now, my way of working is basing reporting on observations, documents or other information containing a reasonable amount of credible facts. This is not black or white. You can study journalism all over the world and find this principle applied at varying extent, but it’s a basic principle. Everything else is background information at the most, and not for reporting. One main reason is the apparent risk for reporting false or tendentious information.
    This is the reason for not reporting on what Cappiello told me, or for not including it in the book.
    When commenting in various forums, as you do, you don’t have to follow that principle, but I have to.
    This is also why I advised you to write book.
    You can judge my reporting for yourself and choose to trust me or not.

  20. ok Mat, Now tell me again you did not know it was a farce. And tell me you received the report without knowing anything on it before.

  21. Mats Lewan permalink

    @tyy The I wish you knew more about journalism;-) I asked Gamberale about his background and this was one of the pieces he brought up. Should I refrain from reporting it? For what reason?

  22. Mats Lewan permalink

    No Cimpy, you’re offending yourself.
    Please base your critic on things you know. It doesn’t look good when you go to far.
    I had my first contact with Gamberale on April 16. He sent me the report a few days later.
    The book was released on April 2, but it was sent to print on March 7.
    I’m working on an update now, which will formally be a second edition since any changes except from minor spelling errors etc require a new ISBN number.

  23. No evidence? it is full of evidence of fraud , an keeping on saying there is not will not make them disappear.

    But speaking of boosters, which is a neighboring subject, For example, let’s speak of Gamberale Report. Can you see a date on it? I can read March 2014. Can you tell me when Mats received it? He said he was ending his book. And when he showed it to us? And why he did not corrected the book, before? It would have been a great chapter, the Hyperion story…Let me guess: he had some bargain with editor he could not miss, am I right?

    Mats, do you feel offended if I state you deserve a (mild) slap on your back? You know, the way parents used with children a bit too smart…

    Do not feed scams’ boosters. Slap them

  24. Stefan Israelsson Tampe permalink

    @Cimpy You just don’t slap people when there no clear evidences. Just ask the many woman that died being accused of witchcraft, surly that @cimpy boy must be saying the truth about that magician Rossi so let’s burn em. Now there is clear evidences that DGT did bad, and they are getting slapped at, let’s be patient and wait for the same evidences to show up against Rossi. If that happens then surely he will get some flames.

  25. “we just don’t know how it works yet” said seriously; looking at one of the Uri ‘s show

    Do not feed scams’ boosters. Slap them

  26. Stefan Israelsson Tampe permalink

    @maryyugo,

    Rossi seams not too engaged and interested in doing a good scientific test in the early phase of this saga. You are right that it is not that difficult to do those test in a good manner and therefore these tests are suspicious. Just let the output heat a tank of water would also be a good suggestion for those tests, leaving any question of steam quality etc for the academics.

    For the current test I suspect that the main cooling is through radiation though and not through air. It is also at one point suggested that you have internal soft gamma that heat up the steel cylinder. I don’t know if that is possible but still the internal heat transfer should be through thermal radiation as well (If we assume a electrical heater). Anyway nuclear reaction does not imply a violent runaway reaction, we just don’t know how it works yet, so it is premature to do any great conclusions from the lack of evidence of runaway.

  27. Mats. I wish you wouldn’t have mentioned Blackligth Power. I really do.

  28. maryyugo permalink

    Yikes! Does nobody here remember anything about heat transfer and fluid flow classes? Did you even have them? THAT is the essential issue here.

    There is no need to worry, care or parse silly details about wetness of steam, flow meter accuracy, feeling heat with your skin (absurd!), boiling or not, and all the other crappola which was and still is being discussed.

    All Mats and the famous scientists needed to do to verify the “excess” energy actually produced by the early ecats was to CALIBRATE. If they had bothered to use the electrical heaters to input a known amount of energy to an inert ecat commensurate with the output when the ecat was running, they could immediately determine with absolute certainty whether or not the measurement system correctly accounted for the output heat. IT’S REALLY THAT SIMPLE AND NOBODY REQUIRED IT. If Rossi had said no, you’d have known he was a crook.

    I could comment on similar idiocy in the current experiment design– for example, the incredible idea that a nuclear fusion reactor is air cooled by ambient air without even forced flow, much less that it does not have a heat exchanger! NOBODY who knows anything about heat transfer does that! Similarly, proper monitoring of input power with an instrumented line cord in series with the mains provided by Rossi should have been done. It’s not rocket science!

    The problem is, the investigators were not prepared, did not do a competent job, did not use the appropriate methods, and did not have sufficient suspicion.

    Rossi is just as likely to go down in flames as Defkalion. Maybe more so if that’s possible. And the reputation of cold fusion research and Mats’ book will go down with it.

  29. and, of course, despite site is currently under maintenance (since a couple of years), they added something to let all the AlainCo in the world hope more and more over:
    The site is currently under planned maintenance.

    info@defkalion-energy.com

    NEW ANNOUNCEMENT

    SUBJECT: MATS LEWAN & LUCAS GAMBERALE REPORTS “DEFKALION DEMO PROVEN NOT TO BE RELIABLE”.

    DEFKALION HAS EVALUATED THE SITUATION, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE POSSIBLE HIDDEN INTERESTS AND AGENDAS BEHIND SUCH REPORTS AND INTERVIEWS, THAT ONLY SHOW PARTIALLY AND SELECTAVLY OUR POSITION.

    DEFKALION WILL CONTINUE “BUSINESS AS USUAL” AS A PRIVATE COMPANY REPRESENTING ONLY ITS OWN INTEREST AND THE INTEREST OF THE PUBLIC ACCORDING TO OUR VISION.

    OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

    Defkalion has completed the first phase of R&D for the basic reactor.
    On 20th of January 2014 we are starting the final stage to prepare the pre-industrial Hyperion product in our labs in Vancouver and Athens.
    Because there was a lot of rumors and talks in various sites, we want to inform all our friends that only official company announcements from our new site represents the position of Defkalion and no any individual or whatsoever has the right to make any announcement or comment on our behalf.
    Also, we inform you that our offices in Vancouver were moved in the same building with our Laboratories in Vancouver with the same telephone numbers.
    Our offices in Athens:
    Syggrou Av & Ymittou 2-4, Palaio Faliro, 17564, Athens, Greece
    Tel. +302109479260

    Our offices in Vancouver:
    Suite 204, 2389 Health Sciences Mall (UBC)
    Vancouver, B.C.
    V6T 1Z3
    Tel: +1 604 683 5555

    For any information till 20th January please contact in Athens office Tel. +302109479260 or send email to info@defkalion-energy.com

    It i a really nice Fairly Tale.

  30. Not only you were right, but more than one said there were too many signs claims were not truly realized. And that Mats should have been conscious of too few noise, too few heat, too few (if any) magnetic force.

    I have a new signature.

    Do not feed scams’ boosters.Slap them
    dedicated to Melis, Pedrocchi and all the wonderful people who spreaded and spread DGT words around saying it is (was) all true and never correcting it.
    And, as Rossi uses to saysoon it will be the same for E-Cat Fairy Tale

  31. mjt permalink

    My post from last July:
    “Mats, the water does not need to be superheated per se. As mentioned above (and from my comment on Twitter), it is a very simple calculation of flow rate for the gas versus tube diameter to determine the speed. People are welcome to check my math, but as a rough estimate, 0.56 liters/minute would be 15 liters/second of dry steam and the tube appears to be about 18mm OD, and based on experience with similar tubing, a 12 mm ID. So cross section of 1,1 cm^2. 15.000 cc/sec divided by 1,1 (13.636), or 0,136 km/s or 490 km/hr (290 mph for us Yanks), A rather strong gust to be so noiseless. Not sure as to the setup, but a slow trickle of water should have a null effect through a plastic hose with limited conductivity. As I said previously, there really seems to be a lot of water, in some form, not accounted for in the outflow.”

    Apparently I am no longer the only one with such concerns. Was rather easy to ascertain with minimal inspection or even expertise on my part. Appropriate skepticism is usually adequate.

  32. Mats Lewan permalink

    A couple of months after I met Rossi I gathered that this was a story that had to be told sooner or later, and I started to take notes.

  33. When might he have had that nice idea? Should not it have all started when he met Rossi for the first time? Or may be better if Mats answers on his own…

  34. Giancarlo permalink

    @Mats Lewan
    Gamberale doesn’t accuse Defkalion openly for fraud, but he makes it clear that the Milan demo presented no evidence that the technology is working.

    On the contrary, Franco Cappiello does accuse indeed, maybe since the 1 million euro check was his own:
    http://www.nextme.it/scienza/energia/7700-fusione-fredda-intervista-cappiello-defkalion-europe

    I would say that we could talk about bad faith. We can talk about activities that will surely have legal aftermath, in the courts of the countries where Defkalion Green Technology has been active.

    By the way he has some doubts also regarding Rossi’s scheme of work
    I have strong and well-founded doubts about Rossi, but that’s another movie.

    PS: I really appreciated you wrote a book about the Rossi affair. When have you completed this idea?

  35. Stefan Israelsson Tampe permalink

    @Cimpy, no, I was referring to what people have stated without knowing what Gamberale
    knew. I just turn against knee jerk attitude of the kind “I once saw a black man commit a crime surely all black men are criminals” I simply write under that all people should be judged individually in a fair manner, and I demand really strong evidences in order to claim that someone is a criminal. On the other hand whenever I discuss these things privately I always say that one need to be careful of cause and I am completely independent whatever the verdict of the ECat will be in the end. Personally I think DGT have completely fooled themselves, but they keep on working trying to produce a LENR device. Remember if there is a hole in the experimental setup, like the one Gamberale is claiming, and you tune and tune, you will hit the snag if you are incompetent. And reading Jed Rothwells mails on Vortex, It really look like they are fools when it comes to calormetry.

  36. CuriousChris permalink

    Nullius in verba

  37. “The fact is that DGT have not put anything on the table to judge”
    are you jokink? Or are you trying to say Gamberale built the Hyperion trick?

  38. Stefan Israelsson Tampe permalink

    @Maryyugo
    The fact is that DGT have not put anything on the table to judge, until the Januari test, which is a joke in that respect. The verdict from most of the LENR community was that nothing was proven. Not knowing for sure that the device works or not or if it is a scam, official people need to be polite, you just don’t discredit people or ignore them if they have not proven themselves walking the wrong path. Blacklisting them for mentioning DGT is really not fair. That’s politics, not science. So one is written off, who’s next? Personally I enjoy watching the scene, it is great learning experience If they are crocks or not I really don’t care.

  39. maryyugo permalink

    What hurts LENR “deeply” is that people like Rossi, Defkalion, Brillouin, Nanospire, and Miley make outrageously extravagant claims to high power and never are able to get even one proper independent test much less the two replications that would make it credible.

    What hurts LENR is that believers, including people like McKubre (who is a first degree woowoo) and even Storms (who should know better) endorse obvious crooks and criminals like Rossi and blowhard incompetents like Defkalion. Kullander, Essen, Levi, and the Swedish scientists did more to make it had to trust research in LENR than all the experiments that failed. And, sorry, but Mats didn’t help a whole lot either. Neither did Jim Dunn and the other people who supposedly tested Defkalion and either did it improperly or took their word for it.

    As for all those who got tiny results, who knows? It’s impossible to tell these mostly irreproducible experiments from noise.

  40. Ascoli65 permalink

    @AlainCo,
    ”… the LENR deniers will abuse of that demo fraud to conclude without the least evidence that any third party test cannot be trusted because… because there was a fraud somewhere else by someone else…”
    No, the link is much more direct. A third party test reports signed by who have already claimed and used invented data – and there is a lot of evidence which prove it – can not be trusted because … because it comes from someone who cannot be trusted. Very simple.

    ”Sad moment that will delay E-cat (and alike) recognition until commercial success…”
    Don’t be so sad, you know that the effectiveness of a bluff is based on delaying the showdown as long as possible.
    In the meanwhile, some “good” tips appear on the web: http://nickelpower.org/2014/04/03/shorting-oil-in-the-coming-lenr-world/ .

  41. If some explains to me what LENR is and how it works, while brewing a cup of coffee with LENR powered coffee maker, I might reconsider my position.

    Until then, I remain entertained by the show.

  42. “the LENR deniers will abuse of that demo fraud to conclude without the least evidence that any third party test cannot be trusted”

    Unless some skeptical is inside and has free access to machine, you guessed right.
    All this story should teach you a cler lesson: there is no such thing as “trust in words” (speaked or written, is the same) when you claim for a physic revolution – you have to prove it and the only way you have to do is let others test your claims with their own hands.

    Now tell me: how many devices have you to give to skeptics to test? An E Cat, for example: might GSVIT have one?

  43. CuriousChris permalink

    Thanks Mats. I appreciate you bringing this forward.

    Of course many people will make excuses for the inexcusable. but its good to see that now people will start to think twice before accepting anything DGT says as rote.

  44. H-G Branzell permalink

    Well, what can you expect? After all, an impossible invention is an impossible invention.

  45. No serious doubt, despite Luca’s politeness, that they tried to fool Luca.

    The question is if they have something that work, even if not performing well, or if it was an upfront scam…
    The only evidence of Hyperion working is the Nelson report, which is very incomplete and is judged preliminary by Nelson himself.
    The fact that Nelson insisted to avoid water to boil was retrospectively a very good requirement.
    The best may be that the low COP=3 he observed was because the “tricks” did not work…
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/old-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19&d=1362347986
    http://www.lenr-forum.com/old-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18&d=1362347930
    Nelson claims the backpressure probably was not a problem, but thais is no more enough to convince.
    He claim some phase change inside the reactor, which is problematic…

    Now what we can expect is either Defkalion go bankrupt, or that they at last organize a serious third-party test, with testers free to do the job well, even with a low COP.

    This will hurt LENR deeply, as, and we see it here, the LENR deniers will abuse of that demo fraud to conclude without the least evidence that any third party test cannot be trusted because… because there was a fraud somewhere else by someone else…

    Sadly that fallacy will work very well as usual, physicist will applaud without reading as they did for Huizenga/Taubes/Morrison/Parks books, and the populace and media will follow like lemmings.
    http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJcoldfusion.pdf#page=4

    Sad moment that will delay E-cat (and alike) recognition until commercial success…

  46. “To obtain this effect it’s necessary to operate two valves in a certain way, so you need to have the intention to do it,”
    A scam and a fraud.
    “(…)Gamberale doesn’t accuse Defkalion openly for fraud”
    well, it was and it is.

    “(…)Alexander Xanthoulis still claims, however, that the development of the new reactor is on track and that according to the plans it will be certified with regard to safety and security by a Canadian certifying body corresponding to US Underwriters’ Laboratory within the next months”
    I am quite sure it should involve 7 professors from 7 different universities. Or a kind of.

    “(…)Xanthoulis and asked for a comment. He didn’t dispute the result of the report but pointed out that the calorimetric set-up at the Milan demo was not made by Defkalion but by Mose. Gamberale confirmed this but explained that the set-up was made according to strict instructions from Defkalion, and that when Mose added some component, such as another independent flow meter or another method for measuring thermal heat output, these additional components were immediately removed by Defkalion personel without discussions.
    (…)Gamberale explained that he had tried to get the information he needed but that he was never allowed to make the measurements he asked for. Instead he described his role as one of an observer
    (…)Finally Xanthoulis pointed out that the flow calorimetry measurements (measurement of thermal energy output by heating flowing water) were not important, but that the most important measurements were on the bare reactor, calculating the output thermal energy by measuring temperatures on various points of the reactor without heating any water (you then use a law called Stefan–Boltzmann law). He told me that these measurements had been sent to Gamberale twice”

    “– He sent an Excel spreadsheet with no explanation including a couple of incomprehensible graphs in which it was not even written what it was about. I felt almost offended. I’m asking a justification of an abnormal result regarding a claim of a nuclear reaction that would change the history of the world, and I get an Excel sheet without any specification of what it is, Gamberale commented.”
    I know another one who made a lot of claim based on an excel sheet till he lost his laboratory. He was the only one who measured gamma around Rossi reactor
    In any case, even in presence of evidence of a fraud there is still one of the scammers that tries ro keep the game running. And if that may make sense (a scammer is a scammer, and 40 millions a licence are 40 millions), wht is incredible is that you, Mats, keep on this story:”Defkalion will now have to present solid evidence to convince anyone that its technology is valid, and also let those people make changes to the test protocol and to the measurement set-up, if it’s necessary in order to eliminate uncertainties” Do you still believe it might work?? No lesson at all from story??
    “I felt almost offended”…Well, he should, a lot for a lot of things. This one – an excel with invented data, he really deserved.

    “Gamberale told me that the findings he describes in the report could bring damage to serious research activities within LENR, but he also told me that he personally still believes that LENR is an important scientific and technological area and that he is getting involved in two other projects in this domain”
    Oh well, you’re in good company, Mats. I am quite sure AlainCo is with you in this.

  47. Ascoli65 permalink

    Gamberale (ex Mose srl) took a few months to make public the inconsistencies in measurements during the test in July 2013 in Milan, of which he was a witness and properly informing the public that these tests do not prove at all any excess heat .

    Now let’s see how long we have still to wait before the testers of the demo in January 2011, held in Bologna, admit the many similar incongruities and pull the same conclusions. I’m afraid they never will and that the public will have to make do with the invented data contained in official reports issued under the UniBo logo. After all, Levi & Co. are in no hurry to make things clear, they have not risked their money, they only have harmed the reputation of their university. Let’s hope that the Italian Ministry of Education decides finally to command an inspection to clarify how are things really went into that shameful farce of Bologna, before the Italian academical physics be ridiculed in the four corners of the planet.

    So that, Mats Lewan can finally realize that most of his book should be amended and will publish a second edition, keeping the same title, but modifjing the subtitle in “The most incredible farce of all time in the field of academical physics.”

    (posted on May 13th, 2014)

  48. maryyugo permalink

    My God, man! It took you this long to realize that Defkalion are consummate liars? Didn’t you ever see the claims on their blogs? All the companies they were testing with? All the independent test results they would release “soon”? All the claims in their pseudoscientific papers at meetings?

    Defkalion are transparent as hell. Anyone who followed their history and failed to see that all along was incredibly gullible. Why do you think Hadjichristos baited me and then refused to proceed when I took the bait, offered to meet him if he would approve in advance a decent test protocol and sent him two experts for proper measurements? He OBVIOUSLY was playing a silly game. He never wanted to be properly tested and he never will.

    Now, apply the same sort of skepticism to Rossi and his absurd distortion of his own history and you will see he is just a different variety of the same thing.

  49. Sanjeev permalink

    I don’t know whats up with DGT, they have gone completely dark and silent. This alone is a good reason to assume that their tech does not work. But I have some doubts about the above mentioned report itself. It does look like a well written report, but I still like to hit it with common sense to see if it breaks.

    Firstly, DE (or Mose) is not a truly independent party. They had interests in the tech and they were partners. The possibility of a mutual enmity remains.

    Secondly, there are 101 methods to fake overunity results, such as simply hacking the software to display incorrect data or to feed the screen with your own made up data or to use damaged or bad sensors etc etc. When DGT had full control of the setup, why did they choose such a weird, delicate and unreliable method to fake it ?

    If the motive was to lure investors, then DGT (or even an ordinary person) would surely know that its a matter of time when someone would like to bring their own flowmeter or any other meter. In such cases, you cannot fool everyone all the time.(Exception is DeBeers, they manage to fool everyone and sell ultra high priced tiny stones to even the smartest)

    If the input flow is made zero, the inlet will heat up and the water-in temperature would rise rapidly and become equal to water-out. This did not happen for many hours.

    With no or tiny flow, the steam exhaust will become almost zero, I do not know if anyone checked that for full duration, but its a very big risk of exposure. Even a non-technical person would notice this. I guess this did not happen in the demo. (The report does say they checked the steam flow).

    This report will harm DGT a lot, but will not conclusively prove that DGT faked it. Unfortunately, the hush hush nature of all lenr companies is causing more harm to the field.

  50. Fibb permalink

    Mats, have you been able to follow Tim Darden’s latest efforts in China regarding the ecat? I hope you can report about that soon.

  51. Fibb permalink

    Wow! thanks Mats… very interesting and disappointing. But I appreciate your effort to keep us informed about DGT. DGT claimed at one point they would have an IPO last fall…. then nothing…. seems like they are disorganized and unprofessional at best. They should prove out their tech once and for all or just get the F out of the way and disappear.

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